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Verse Forty Six


From: jimclatfelter
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008

Verse Forty Six
Witter Bynner, 1944

In a land where the way of life is understood
Race-horses are led back to serve the field;
In a land where the way of life is not understood
War-horses are bred on the autumn yield.
Owning is the entanglement,
Wanting is the bewilderment,
Taking is the presentiment:
Only he who contains content
Remains content.

Verse Forty Six
Nina Correa, 2005

When the world has Dao, trained horses are set free to fertilize the countryside.
When the world is without Dao, army horses thrive in the outskirts of the city.

As for crime - nothing contributes to it more than wanting too much.
As for offending others - nothing is sadder than the desire to gain.
As for misfortune - nothing is greater than not being content with what you have.

Know that you already have enough, your actions are enough, and you'll always be enough.

Verse Forty Six
Ralph Alan Dale, 2002

When the Great Integrity
permeated our lives,
freely galloping horses fertilized the fileds.

When the Great Integrity was lost,
war horses were bred in the countryside.

There is no greater calamity
than acquisitiveness racing out of control.

Only those who know
when enough is enough
can ever have enough.


From: simon
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008

Well, this is a topical verse!

And it even contains the remedy, not just a description of the dis-ease...

Quote:
As for misfortune - nothing is greater than not being content with what you have.

Ah!
And where do I see exactly what I have...
by looking "out" at the world around me, or looking "in" at what I contain?

Or looking both ways!

Yours,
simon


From: jimclatfelter
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008

Hi Simon,

Yes, looking both ways, I have it all, to say nothing of enough.

I like the horse images here too. We could say that they represent our life energy. When the Tao is seen, horses are used on farms. When we imagine confrontation, horses are used in warfare. Where does our energy go when we think we are up against the world? Where does it go when we see we contain the world? Seeing the open design makes all the difference.

Jim


From: Janet
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008

hi guys,

i like the horse images here, too. it does show where they are used for nurturing life, and where they are used for destroying life.

but, i have a question. if tao/seeing is, as it is, is the field for the horses boundless? meaning, it all happens here, both nurturing and destroying continually? even in nature, life is continually living and dying simultaneously.

hope my point comes across in what i'm trying to get at.

love,
janet


From: simon
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008

Hi All,
yes, nice point about the horses representing energy, like that!

Nice question too, Janet, I m not sure i get it, though... Sending "horses" off to war is (surely) a result of a confrontational 'mind' ... using them to help feed everyone is more open...
My impression is that this verse is more "how-you-live-your-life" - Isn't this the "Te" part of the story?

Quote: is the field for the horses boundless?
You ask..
Well, I haven't found any limit yet...

What was that lovely phrase of Douglas's... about "being content with my content"

Can't stop the love...


From: Janet
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008

simon: Nice question too, Janet, I m not sure i get it, though... Sending "horses" off to war is (surely) a result of a confrontational 'mind' ... using them to help feed everyone is more open...
My impression is that this verse is more "how-you-live-your-life" - Isn't this the "Te" part of the story?

hi simon,

sure, how to live your life. but, what if war comes knocking at your door? i mean, you cannot necessarily control these things.

simon: is the field for the horses boundless? You ask..
Well, I haven't found any limit yet...

but isn't there a limit put on it if war is excluded, and only peace included?

simon: What was that lovely phrase of Douglas's... about "being content with my content"

i find that is a lovely phrase, as well. but, "being content with my content" may also be taken as accepting of everything, eg., peace and war.

what i'm trying to really get at is the WHOLE TRUTH. i don't want just the pretty spiritual picture side of the truth. i see Here that who i really am is beyond peace and war. but peace and war are included. not just one, but both are included. i may have a preference, but it doesn't change how it is.

does anyone see what i'm getting at?

love,
janet


From: jimclatfelter
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008

The place where war horses are bred is translated by many words: outskirts, suburbs, frontier, horizon and border are some of them. I think border is a fitting word. Aggression happens when we find a border between self and other. Contentment happens when we find no border, only openness. I think that these are offered as tendencies, not hard and fast rules. Aggression tends to happen when we find a border between self and other. Contentment tends to occur when we find no border, only openness and space for others.

I'm not sure about being contented with the "bad" parts. Isn't bad defined as that about which we are not content? Just adking.

Love,
Jim


From: Janet
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008

Aggression happens when we find a border between self and other. Contentment tends to occur when we find no border, only openness and space for others.

I'm not sure about being contented with the "bad" parts. Isn't bad defined as that about which we are not content? Just adking.

hi jim,

i'm not trying to be difficult, i'm just trying to get to the bottom of it.

discontent seems to appear. i don't know why. do i become discontent with it (creating another border)?

we find that we are discontent with that which we deem as 'bad'. but, i ask, where do distinctions such as 'bad' and 'good' dissolve?

i don't know if they will ever dissolve in the world. so, somewhere there needs to be space for such distinctions such as 'good' and 'bad' to appear. so, in fact, deep within, beyond 'good and 'bad', there must be 'content with content'. how else would the show go on?

i don't know if i make any sense. i think -pretty deeply. sometimes it gets on others' nerves.

love,
janet


From: jimclatfelter
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008

Hi Janet,

Good and bad are human judgments. Nature (Tao) doesn't judge. It just does what it does. We need human judgments, but, as you say, there is a place of no judgment (content with content) deep within. Do we see the value of that place? For my part, I say it comes and goes. I wonder what others think, how they experience it.

Love,
Jim


From: Steve Palmer
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008

Hi Jim and Janet

I was thinking, that which comes and goes,
objects, thoughts, feelings etc, is the life, death cycle, small or large.

This is what distracts me from the deathless or wide open space.
Headlessness.

Then i notice the the space again and value the boundlessness.

Thought, discussion, reading, pointing etc can trigger that Seeing
but these reminders also "die" into the deathless,
which seems to be always available, when noticed,

But constant value-ing of that place
seems to be another thing that passes through the deathless.
A Buddhist term I like at present .

I'm finding this hard to pin down in words
but do value the advaita pointer that " This Is It " to bring you back to
the present awake boundless mystery of the Headless space....................
.........................Where there is no where to go and nothing to do.

You can't do it wrong as Douglas use to say.You can not see a spotty void,

It is in the content I need all the life skills,
which to complete the circle, seems to arise out of the deathless.
With a little nurture and love.

Steve


From: Janet
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008

hi jim, steve, and simon,

i don't know....

what it isn't, is so tight with what is, its inseparable, to me. they fall into one another. i look at one side and it bubbles into the other, no matter which side i try to hold onto while looking. each side needs union with the other. i don't know how else to explain it.

love,
janet


From: Luc
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008

Janet wrote:

what i'm trying to really get at is the WHOLE TRUTH. i don't want just the pretty spiritual picture side of the truth. i see Here that who i really am is beyond peace and war. but peace and war are included. not just one, but both are included. i may have a preference, but it doesn't change how it is.

does anyone see what i'm getting at?

I love this, Janet : not wanting just the pretty spiritual picture side of the truth. People often mean the pretty side when they speak of spirituality. Douglas was the first to make it clear to me that it is not a matter of 'loving everyone' or pretty things like that.
Seeing Who I really am, if I had horses I wouldn't train them for war. War is not a means I need. It may happen because someone else thinks it will be useful for his or her purposes. And then it happens and I accept this, despite my own point of view.

Hope this makes sense to you

Love
Luc


From: Janet
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008

Luc wrote:
Seeing Who I really am, if I had horses I wouldn't train them for war. War is not a means I need. It may happen because someone else thinks it will be useful for his or her purposes. And then it happens and I accept this, despite my own point of view.

Hope this makes sense to you

hi luc,

thank you for your reply.

well, it makes sense in a practical matter, yes!

but is everyone always practical? is humanity ever? i mean, is it possible to expect that this is the way things should, or ever will be?

please! i don't want to continue to disappointed!

anyway, i just go by what i see. there is peace and there is war happening in the world at once. i've never seen it otherwise.

peace would be great in the world, and its a great thing to feel for life in general.

love,
janet


From: Janet
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008

hi luc, and anyone else still interested,

i'm going to try give my expanation another shot. lets see what happens.

well, here we are talking about peace and war. two opposites on a plane which also includes every variation of these aspects in between.
we have these complete opposites to also have these variations between. its just the makeup of how the world appears to us, though all these opposites and variation are, in fact all on the same plane.

if we only had peace because we say that is good or the best to have, we are eliminating ever other aspect and its opposite.

it would, in fact, eliminate the rest of the plane, and the plane of all opposites in all that appears to us. other examples missing would be opposites in gender, opposites in sexual orientation, etc. we might only have one size for everything, and one shape too. every tree would be the same. every pet dog would look the same. creation would come to a hault. i would think it would be a bore.

by having opposites, along with every aspect between them, its a great variation. there is no end really. we can't just say we will only have peace. we cannot pick and choose, its all included in this spaciousness out of design. the space does not control what develops. its the endless creation seen on the same plane of conciousess.

thats how it seems to me. its hard to explain. to me, it comes as a feeling and vision -and i try to find the words for you.

hope that works better.

love,
janet


From: simon
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008

Speaking only for myself (obviously!) - I think there is no problem with what you say... Everything is included (although for reasons I cannot explain, my life is quiet and quite war free...)
That said, there are a whole range of 'actions' or 'activities' that I do not engage in...
Seeing brings about a change, especially in relationships: confrontation is limited and it is rare (according to my family) for this face not to wear a smile!
As regards horses, in war or with ploughs, my take was regarding what actions one encourages - I took this to mean about the same as that wonderful "two wolves" story...

Of course, and thank god, we all have different views (imagine the monotony otherwise!) and we all share the same (Ah! now, how to avoid the trap of trying to name the un-namable?!)
Creation and destruction go on all the time. I have even been known to accelerate the process in my compost pile!

Can there be awareness of space without some thing in it?
In every case,
love,


Headless on Youtube
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